A-League: Success or Failure?

[Liam]

I am so confused. Every time there is a positive report coming out of the media, a negative one comes out a day after and rebutts the news.

Take Sydneys case for example - they have supposedly set the benchmark for football clubs in Australia, yet they are engulfed in a seven figure debt after one season. That can only be expected though, after all, it was said that NO club will be making profit for three years. Sydney have spent millions in order to get there name out early, obviously trying to catch the World Cups' wave. Subsequently they have doubled their membership tally, won a championship and have a top notch stadium. So have they been successful or disastrous?

Something that was obvious last year is that New Zealand were a disgrace to the A-League - their own manager admitted to 'under estimating' the quality of the A-League; which was not exactly at premier league standard. However, the Knights have started off fresh this year and have almost signed up their full roster, and to be honest some of their acquisitions havent been half bad at all. Also they are attracting large crowds at functions and fun days. I cant help but think that they may actually do well this year, on and off the field.

Central Coast, Melbourne Victory and Queensland have exceeded expectations off the field - all attracting positive interest in the media, quality overseas and local players, and additional financial backing. Central Coast were seen as a long term project, yet they have already made an appearance in the grand final final, sold out their home ground and captured the hearts of Gosford. Things couldnt have gone better for the New South Welsh outfit. Melbourne, all though on the field were at times unattractive, were all and all a success. They secured the most sought after sponsership in domestic football with Samsung, have two current socceroos and a bunchful of hopefuls among their ranks, as well as having a diverse mix of european and south american players. They surpassed their expectations off field by reporting the most memberships in the A-League, pulling consistant crowds and at times were the number one flavour in the media. A lot of that goes for Queensland; despite their position on the ladder come seasons end last year, they consistantly pulled in crowds at the best stadium in the A-League, and have now secured some key international signings that should put the club in good stead on the field. They have also teamed up with a few local companies which should make them financially sound for the next few seasons at least.

Then theres the story of the Glory. The most attractive ex-NSL club, made some terrible decisions off the field which led to their subsequent downfall on and off the field. Now the FFA have steadied their ship, and have had some positive news in the past few weeks with Socceroo Stan Lazaridis signing with them, and good results in practise matches where large crowds have come out to see how their teams are panning out.

Newcastle have also had a similiar occurance. Despite on field success, management sacked Richard Money and have changed a lot of the squad, selling players such as Ante Milicic and Liam Reddy who were both an integral part of their relatively successful season last year. Ned Zelic, who is not new to fucking football in Australia, remains in limbo about his future; taking away the chance of the Jets to sign a new marquee player which they so desperately need to boast crowds. To add to that, new signing Paul Okon has 'walked out' on the club, 12 days after signing.

So this brings me back to my question; has the venture of the A-League been a success of a failure?

Taking all into account, I would have to say it is a potential success. Clubs have grown from the experience of last season, and have made some important adjustments on and off the field. After one season, despite reports I believe all 8 clubs have a decent foundation to build on and come seasons end, comparing season one to season two there will be some vast improvements on all aspects of the league, and expanding wont be out of the question. Failure or Success? Ill say potential success.

Thoughts?

[dave30]

Success, it's brought a high level of football, attracted great crowds and now is attracting overseas players but more importantly keeping the young guns here e.g. Sarkies, Leijer who might've gone to some shit second league german team.

Sure sydney ran at a lost but they also built an awsome team and have set a benchmark for the rest of the teams.

A lot of these negative reports are probably from AFL and NRL favoured reporters who still think of it as a game for sheilas, wogs and poofters

[nonna]

To see if a "new bussiness" is truely successful, you usually asses it after 2 years.

[Carlton life member]

yeah
it's a bit early to try to make that judgement

I'd say
promising start
a few problems to iron out
damn sight better than anything we've had before
better than expected acceptance by the media and fans

[dechamp]

So far so good i would say. All the problems clubs have had are problems to be expected. It is a far more attractive league to overseas than the NSL ever was. The professionalism has increased as well as the time and effort put into the clubs. Stadiums are alot better than the NSL grounds and more people are following the league. Sounds good to me.

[futuremelvicstar]

Success most of the negatives reports will be gone in 2-4 years when clubs are making profit and they are stable.

[rusty]

Melbourne has 2 current socceroos?

[hellas7]

So far so good i would say. All the problems clubs have had are problems to be expected. It is a far more attractive league to overseas than the NSL ever was. The professionalism has increased as well as the time and effort put into the clubs. Stadiums are alot better than the NSL grounds and more people are following the league. Sounds good to me.

Newcastle used the same stadium in the nsl and recieved its highest attendance ever at that venue in an nsl match which they couldnt break last year.

Hindmarsh was used in the nsl by 2 clubs.

Olympic park has been used as Carlton's, south melbourne and collingwood warriors home base at 1 time.

Members equity stadium was always used by perth.

North harbour stadium was used by the old Kungz.

Suncorp was used by the brisbane strikers.

Outside of the nice little stadium down in gosford, they really are the same venues of the past.

[mahony]

Sydney are more of a worry than I think we know. I agree that they are in a big market, but it is a very fickle on IMO. There are other clubs that look shaky (Perth, Newcastle), but they seem to have a much better $ situation and significantly lower fixed overhead costs (stadiums etc...). $6Million debt FFS!!!!

I think SydFC need to win the A-League or even the ACL this season and land some serious sponsorship/prize money, because on my rough reckoning they have yet to begin to stem the financial bleeding despite a couple of new sponsors. The interest bill on this sort of debt alone must be a serious killer!

According to the SydFC forum the new "Greysonline" and "Australian Business Printing" sponsors [ big names though they are :) ] - are not shirt sponsors, but "match day" sponsors - so if they are "six figure" sponsorships, then they are probably literally just over the 100K mark.

When you consider that Yorke is still there sucking up serious $ for sweet FA (although I agree he is good for the league as a whole). that butcher did not come cheap (although cheaper than Litti) and that they are still paying some seriously big rent on that rugby stadium they are unlikely to ever fill - their situation is a bit rough to say the least.

The A-league needs SydFC and it shits me no end that they are selling us all up the river.

Mahony

[Liam]

Melbourne has 2 current socceroos?

Archie and Kristian?

[Victory2006]

Archie and Kristian?

Spot on. :)

[futuremelvicstar]

Sydney are more of a worry than I think we know. I agree that they are in a big market, but it is a very fickle on IMO. There are other clubs that look shaky (Perth, Newcastle), but they seem to have a much better $ situation and significantly lower fixed overhead costs (stadiums etc...). $6Million debt FFS!!!!

I think SydFC need to win the A-League or even the ACL this season and land some serious sponsorship/prize money, because on my rough reckoning they have yet to begin to stem the financial bleeding despite a couple of new sponsors. The interest bill on this sort of debt alone must be a serious killer!

According to the SydFC forum the new "Greysonline" and "Australian Business Printing" sponsors [ big names though they are :) ] - are not shirt sponsors, but "match day" sponsors - so if they are "six figure" sponsorships, then they are probably literally just over the 100K mark.

When you consider that Yorke is still there sucking up serious $ for sweet FA (although I agree he is good for the league as a whole). that butcher did not come cheap (although cheaper than Litti) and that they are still paying some seriously big rent on that rugby stadium they are unlikely to ever fill - their situation is a bit rough to say the least.

The A-league needs SydFC and it shits me no end that they are selling us all up the river.

Mahony
There chairman spoke a while ago on total football he said something along the lines of that they expect to break even in year 3 though they did lose more then expected last year but they still expect to break even in year 3.

[mahony]

There chairman spoke a while ago on total football he said something along the lines of that they expect to break even in year 3 though they did lose more then expected last year but they still expect to break even in year 3.

Well if that come to fruition - I will be mighty relieved.

Mahony

[dave30]

Melbourne has 2 current socceroos?
Plus a former in muscat, an olyroo in eugene and Leijer, Prio and maybe Lia will be future socceroos

[Riquelme]

pretty good so far, imo

[jonk]

very good.

What the ... heck has happened to Newcastle??

[SOPS – Lord of the Blings]

Sydney are more of a worry than I think we know. I agree that they are in a big market, but it is a very fickle on IMO. There are other clubs that look shaky (Perth, Newcastle), but they seem to have a much better $ situation and significantly lower fixed overhead costs (stadiums etc...). $6Million debt FFS!!!!

I think SydFC need to win the A-League or even the ACL this season and land some serious sponsorship/prize money, because on my rough reckoning they have yet to begin to stem the financial bleeding despite a couple of new sponsors. The interest bill on this sort of debt alone must be a serious killer!

According to the SydFC forum the new "Greysonline" and "Australian Business Printing" sponsors [ big names though they are :) ] - are not shirt sponsors, but "match day" sponsors - so if they are "six figure" sponsorships, then they are probably literally just over the 100K mark.

When you consider that Yorke is still there sucking up serious $ for sweet FA (although I agree he is good for the league as a whole). that butcher did not come cheap (although cheaper than Litti) and that they are still paying some seriously big rent on that rugby stadium they are unlikely to ever fill - their situation is a bit rough to say the least.

The A-league needs SydFC and it shits me no end that they are selling us all up the river.

Mahony

Firstly Mahony, there's a slight difference between "debt" and "operating loss". The club carries no debt.

In the case of Sydney and all other clubs, set-up costs in season one were cripplingly expensive. These expenses won't be carried through to season two. Sponsorship is way up, membership and season ticket sales are way up and now money from the media deal made by the FFA will trickle in. Again, this will the case for most, if not all clubs. In fact, the deal signed by the FFA gives enough money per season to each club to cover the salary cap (sans marquee players). Not bad.

I'm not making excuses here. Sydney lost more money than other A-League clubs. However operating expenses were much higher on an uncertain revenue stream which takes budgeting into the realms of fantasy. Stadium costs were too high. The club is in negotiations to lower this (by making noises about a move to Telstra to force the issue) and were confident of some progress, it may have already happened.

A one off expense, much ignored, was the CWC. The club's trip through the Pacific (as far as Tahiti) was staggeringly expensive apparently. Money won in the tournament didn't come close to covering the costs of participating (prize money was distributed through the A-League by the FFA) but both the club and the FFA felt it was worthwhile for reasons of exposure in Asia and to show off the A-League to our new confederation.

Yorke was another expense that benefited not only Sydney but the League as a whole. He hasn't been cut loose either but retained, which is hardly the actions of a club in a financial crisis. Lastly Littbarski's contract was considerably higher than Butcher's so there will be another saving there.

I'm afraid that nobody is in the slightest bit concerned. We're budgeting for a small loss this season, then breaking even in season three.

Tell ya what is crapping off many clubs now - merchandising. Sydney FC sells crate loads of shirts, scarves, etc (easily the highest seller according to Reebok) and hardly sees a cent of it. It's a tiny percentage. Almost all goes to the FFA. You can be sure this will be a sticking point in the future.

For better or for worse, we're the Lowy family's plaything now. The costs of running the club is beer money for them.

[T.S.R]

Newcastle used the same stadium in the nsl and recieved its highest attendance ever at that venue in an nsl match which they couldnt break last year.

Hindmarsh was used in the nsl by 2 clubs.

Olympic park has been used as Carlton's, south melbourne and collingwood warriors home base at 1 time.

Members equity stadium was always used by perth.

North harbour stadium was used by the old Kungz.

Suncorp was used by the brisbane strikers.

Outside of the nice little stadium down in gosford, they really are the same venues of the past.

Yes my lord. Please tell us the secret to Footballing success! :p

[rusty]

Archie and Kristian?

Ah, that's right.
Just couldn't put my finger on the other one besides Archie.

[box]

Yes my lord. Please tell us the secret to Footballing success! :p


hire ernie merrick as coach

[hellas7]

Yes my lord. Please tell us the secret to Footballing success! :p

Diving!

[Victory2006]

Diving!

I thought it was having your government interefere in your football league, and then having your national team booted from FIFA for a little while, just to give the rest of us enough ammunition to hang shit on the whole lot of ya for all eternity? :D;)

[hellas7]

I thought it was having your government interefere in your football league, and then having your national team booted from FIFA for a little while, just to give the rest of us enough ammunition to hang shit on the whole lot of ya for all eternity? :D;)

I'd normally pay that, but after what the italian clubs will cop tomorrow greece is well and trully in the clear. 1 week ammunition you had and you made a mess of it, expect better effort from you if greece fails to qualify for euro or something lol.

[Victory2006]

I'd normally pay that, but after what the italian clubs will cop tomorrow greece is well and trully in the clear. 1 week ammunition you had and you made a mess of it, expect better effort from you if greece fails to qualify for euro or something lol.

I made the most of what I had, just wait til the Serie A clubs go down. ;)

Still, nothing compares with FIFA saying "F*ck off" for complete humiliation :D

[hellas7]

I made the most of what I had, just wait til the Serie A clubs go down. ;)

Still, nothing compares with FIFA saying "F*ck off" for complete humiliation :D

Complete humiliation would have been if they let it stay that way, then the f*ck off would have been humiliating, but then backtracking and reversing the decision after not even 7 days of fun is a bit of an embarassment, you gotta make those things stick and fifa failed once again lol.

I want an improved effort in relation to the serie A clubs starting tomorrow, i'll rate your performance after a period of time, good luck lol.

[Victory2006]

Complete humiliation would have been if they let it stay that way, then the f*ck off would have been humiliating, but then backtracking and reversing the decision after not even 7 days of fun is a bit of an embarassment, you gotta make those things stick and fifa failed once again lol.

I want an improved effort in relation to the serie A clubs starting tomorrow, i'll rate your performance after a period of time, good luck lol.

Let's start with Juve is sinking further than the Lira ever did ;)

[hellas7]

Let's start with Juve is sinking further than the Lira ever did ;)

LOL cant ask for a better start then that, expect to hear some rippers in the coming days.

[Doug Sahm]

Firstly Mahony, there's a slight difference between "debt" and "operating loss". The club carries no debt.

In the case of Sydney and all other clubs, set-up costs in season one were cripplingly expensive. These expenses won't be carried through to season two. Sponsorship is way up, membership and season ticket sales are way up and now money from the media deal made by the FFA will trickle in. Again, this will the case for most, if not all clubs. In fact, the deal signed by the FFA gives enough money per season to each club to cover the salary cap (sans marquee players). Not bad.

I'm not making excuses here. Sydney lost more money than other A-League clubs. However operating expenses were much higher on an uncertain revenue stream which takes budgeting into the realms of fantasy. Stadium costs were too high. The club is in negotiations to lower this (by making noises about a move to Telstra to force the issue) and were confident of some progress, it may have already happened.

A one off expense, much ignored, was the CWC. The club's trip through the Pacific (as far as Tahiti) was staggeringly expensive apparently. Money won in the tournament didn't come close to covering the costs of participating (prize money was distributed through the A-League by the FFA) but both the club and the FFA felt it was worthwhile for reasons of exposure in Asia and to show off the A-League to our new confederation.

Yorke was another expense that benefited not only Sydney but the League as a whole. He hasn't been cut loose either but retained, which is hardly the actions of a club in a financial crisis. Lastly Littbarski's contract was considerably higher than Butcher's so there will be another saving there.

I'm afraid that nobody is in the slightest bit concerned. We're budgeting for a small loss this season, then breaking even in season three.

Tell ya what is crapping off many clubs now - merchandising. Sydney FC sells crate loads of shirts, scarves, etc (easily the highest seller according to Reebok) and hardly sees a cent of it. It's a tiny percentage. Almost all goes to the FFA. You can be sure this will be a sticking point in the future.

For better or for worse, we're the Lowy family's plaything now. The costs of running the club is beer money for them.


Don't be coming on here with you're reasonable and truthful balanced replies. Its not fair.

Can't you just say 'farken Tards' and leave?

[Bendigo Blue]

It is too early to declare the A-League a success or a failure. So far the signs are promising, but we need to see how things are travelling in 5 or 10 years time to know whether it has been successful. We are still very much in the honeymoon period.

In fact, 5 years is probably too soon. If the A-League is an established part of the Australian landscape in 10 years time and enjoying healthy and consistent support, then we can say it is a success.

[jonk]

Well it's on its way up right now. The signs bode well with tv and sponsorship deals. The competitive nature of the clubs will cause them to try as much as possible to get better and better signings every year.

[Sash]

Havn't read though the whole thread but just like to put my opinion in more based on the success of the real football in Australia. TO do this the A-League needs to be succesful long term and much of this will depend on the first 2-5 years as it is the time when most bussinesses fail. To people a league and teams that crowds will they have an alliance with for the league to be successful along with fiancial stability. It would be a massive shame to watch the league fall.

The next is important issue that fossie brings up of a technical director. We need to revamp the system, coaching licenses, academies etc... These needs to be doen some how could be costly though.

My next point brings me back to the A-League and the need for if the League is successful after 10 years or so that it is bought to a commercial network (unless there is massive change in culture and everyone gets foxtel). This would give the exposure needed for the league and would be a massive boost. But there is also the argument that people then wouldn't be going to games but I tend to disargee, games in home towns won't be shown live ofcoarse meaning it would get exposure of interstate matches and as their teams match wouldn't be shown live then they would want to go to matches.

This is the way forward and the next step that should be taken if that first intial stage of building the league up over 5 years and then to the 10 year mark. Of coarse would be very difficult to build up a agreement with one of the commercial networks and we wouldn't want another channel 7 job of the NSL. Wouldn't really be affected by AFL season which is good and only affected by cricket which may rule out channel 9 (anyway getting way ahead of myself there). But you get my main point hopefully.

[Lajka]

For better or for worse, we're the Lowy family's plaything now. The costs of running the club is beer money for them. <---- I think that comment is very unfair and unfounded. Lowy is doing this for the game. There are plenty of other things he could do with his time and that comment makes it sound like he was bored so decided to buy a new toy to play with which is far from what is the reality.

In terms of the league, it has had to start from absolute scratch. Without even looking further to the establishment of a whole new governing body, the effort placed on assisting the national teams thus far and still having to deal with remnants from the past, so much has been achieved and in the right way. To look back to what was less than two years ago and where we are now, miracles have been worked and i cant come up with a better team to have taken on the task nor what more couldve been achieved in this time. I think a wonderful job has been done and like anything successful, time is needed to build solid foundations for the future.

[Marteh]

Can we ALL get this straight.

All clubs had a loss last year. Sydney had a bigger loss a loss is way more fucking different than DEBT. All the clubs DON'T OWE ANYTHING to ANYONE.

How many times does this have to be said... And obviously, in business, you have to spend money to make money. Sydney had to spend alot of money to break into their tough market, it just means once they succeed, they will be bringing in the buckets load of cash from 30k crowds.

Remember, loss is not debt. Oh how they are so much different

[Carlton life member]

the thing that worries me after yesterday's game in Perth is the low crowd numbers

with all the behind the scenes drama at Perth, it is scary to fear it means the support could have dropped out from under the Glory

I hope it is just because it is only pre-season and the media and crowds don't really take it seriously.

[Liam]

Canberra got 7000
Sunshine Coast 4000
Gold Coast got 8000
Tasmania got 7000

Crowdwise, I think the signs are good. Perth will improve crowdswise (especially when Laza starts playing) and I wouldnt be surprised if New Zealand got 5000 or so to their game next week against Sydney at home.

[Marteh]

Okay Hold Up:

Canberra = 7,000/20,000+
Sunshine Coast = 3,400/4,000
Goal Coast = 8,000/16,000+
Tasmania = 7,000/18,000+
Western Perth = 2000/2000
Orange = 4,500/2,000

Dont look at the crowds unless looking at capacity. Low crowds usually mean low capacity or areas where there isnt much of a population. Whereas New Zealand are a hole fucking new case all together.. Stupid sheep shaggers